Season 2 of the Zdravo Podcast! Changes for the Better: We Want Them, But We’re Scared

Everyone wants things to get better. More money, more clients, a bigger audience, more freedom, more recognition, more of that feeling: “I did it. I got where I wanted to be.”

But for some reason, almost no one talks about the fact that changes for the better are still stressful. Sometimes very stressful. Even when you wanted them yourself. Even when you had been moving toward them for a long time. Even when, from the outside, everything looks like success, celebration, and “finally.”

In the first episode of the second season of the Zdravo podcast, we — Nastya, a photographer and blogger, and Tanya, a psychologist and blogger — talk about the fear of success, self-sabotage, blog growth, money, the body, emigration, envy, changing social circles, and why sometimes the most honest reaction to a good event is not “yay, ” but “I’m completely overwhelmed.”

“What if it actually works?”

Nastya:

I think that before you get to success, you have to do a huge amount of underwater work. And that alone is not easy. But for some reason, no one ever thinks about what comes next.

You were striving for something, doing things, trying, posting, speaking, showing up. And then suddenly it starts working. From the outside, it looks like: “Yay, she got what she was working toward.” But inside you’re like: “Wait. What am I supposed to do with this now?”

Tanya:

Yes, and as a psychologist, I often see requests about changing life for the better. People come and say: “I want success.” And the first question I ask is: what does success mean to you?

Because “success” is not a universal thing. For one person, success is five thousand followers. For another, it’s stable income. For a third, it’s international clients. For a fourth, it’s the ability not to work for someone else. And before you go somewhere, it is very important to understand where exactly you are going.

I generally think it is useful for a person to regularly ask themselves two questions: who am I really, and what do I really want?

Nastya:

And the main thing here is not to bullshit yourself. To say everything as it is. And that is the hardest part.

Because the answer to the question “who am I?” also changes. Today you are one person, tomorrow another. Tomorrow you do something, and in our usual way of thinking, that immediately gives you a trait: “I did this — so I am this kind of person.”

And if it is something good, it can work in your favor. Like, brainwash yourself into success. But if it is something bad, we often carry it from childhood or adolescence. Someone once said: “Oh, what a girl you have there” — and then you grow up fulfilling that expectation.

When success happens, but you cannot fully enjoy it yet

Nastya:

Over the past few months, I had a big jump on Instagram — which is banned in the Russian Federation. This was something I had been moving toward. I wanted growth, I was striving for it. But when it happened, I freaked the fuck out.

In terms of numbers, my audience grew from about two thousand to eleven thousand. That is a big load for the psyche. And from the outside, it seems like you should be happy. And I was happy. But somehow, I couldn’t fully feel that happiness.

Only recently, I was just sitting at home, without any external stimuli, and it suddenly hit me: “Oh. So this is what happened. Holy shit.” I got goosebumps all over. And I understood why people sabotage success.

Something starts working out for you, and you’re like: “No, no, no, wait, I don’t need this.” Even though you wanted it.

Tanya:

This is a regular thing in business, entrepreneurship, and creative projects. Something works, and instead of pure joy, pressure appears: how do I repeat it? what now? does this mean I have to keep doing only this?

Every person has their own unique path. We can try to repeat some pieces of someone else’s success mosaic, but we cannot repeat it completely. Because there is a background: what your self-esteem was like in childhood, how you were raised, what culture you grew up in, whether there was money in the family, what the social situation was like, your health, genetics, experience, connections, luck.

All of these factors cannot be repeated. So when a person says: “This worked for me, ” they may be right. But it does not mean the same thing will work for you.

Nastya:

Yes. And when, for example, a video blows up, you start thinking: “Okay, this must mean something. Now I have to make videos like this.” I had a reel about an elevator in a Yugoslav apartment block, where you have to close the door by hand. It got a million views. And I was like: “What does this mean? Do I now have to repeat this success? Should I make only these kinds of videos?”

And that creates enormous pressure.

Self-sabotage does not mean “you are your own enemy”

Tanya:

The word “self-sabotage” often sounds accusatory. As if a person is cutting themselves off at the knees, choosing to stay poor, resisting success, and is generally to blame for everything.

But I deeply believe that every person wants the best for themselves and, in every moment, chooses the best option available to them. That is the foundation of humanistic psychotherapy.

If we remove accusatory words like “resistance” and “sabotage, ” what is left? Fears. Fear of success. Anxiety around uncertainty.

For example, I currently have 850 followers, not 10 thousand. I don’t know what it feels like when 10 thousand people are looking at you. Not even 5 thousand. If I already had them, I would understand what it is. But right now, I don’t. And that uncertainty can bring up anxiety.

And anxiety is a universal energy-eater. It spins thoughts in circles. You want to numb it with TV shows, food, a packed schedule. You are technically doing something, but in reality, you are avoiding the main question.

And that question is: what if it actually works?

Nastya:

Usually everyone asks: “What if it doesn’t work?” But here it is the opposite.

Tanya:

Yes. “What if it works?” is a very powerful question. Because the first reaction is often: “Well, that would be great.” Yes, it would. But would it change something? It absolutely would.

And if you pause after “well, that would be great” and ask yourself: “What happens in my body when I tell myself: it will work?” — you can discover a lot.

For example, I imagine: I have 10 thousand followers. And I immediately feel my diaphragm tighten. It hurts under my ribs, it becomes hard to breathe. I keep observing: what is scary here? And shame appears. Pressure on my shoulders, heat, heaviness. What is the shame about? The thought: “What will I say? Who am I to speak? What will they think?”

So underneath the fear of success, there is often low self-worth.

Claiming your achievements is not silly — it is support

Tanya:

When I see this shame and low self-worth, I begin to remember my achievements. Not abstractly, but concretely.

I earn a certain amount. Two years ago, that was not the case. I have a stable practice. I have clients with whom we work and see results. I have supervision. I have a home where I live. I have things I have already done.

I claim these achievements as mine. And the anxiety begins to recede, while my self-worth begins to rise.

This is not always easy. Sometimes you really do need to work on this with a psychologist. But if the skill is already there, it helps a lot.

Nastya:

I find it interesting to apply this to myself and understand where my anxiety begins. Because while you are talking, I think: technically, nothing changes. It does not matter how many thousands of followers you have if you are doing something authentically. It should not affect you.

And unfortunately, it does.

A desire appears to filter yourself. Or the thought: “Oh, this format works, now I’ll only do this.” But where there is no real energy or inspiration of your own, it stops working too.

Now I understand: it is great that the growth of my blog has started bringing in more clients. More people know about me, and it has positively affected my financial situation. But what does it mean? In reality, it does not mean anything.

People started recognizing me on the street. At first, it confused me because it was unexpected. Later, I suppose, you get used to it. But when five people message you and say: “What a great blog, ” you can reply to each of them and truly feel grateful. But when there are 505 of them, the psyche says: “No, we will break. We are not going there.”

And then you have to change your behavior strategies. You have to change your relationship with the incoming flow. Because audience growth is not just numbers. It is more visibility, more clients, more requests, the need to change prices, and the need to distribute your attention differently.

Money is also a change

Nastya:

Money is also a change. And sometimes we are not ready for financial success because it also means something.

Tanya:

Yes. And this is where beliefs connected to success, money, and visibility come in. Some of them are family beliefs, and some are transgenerational — passed down from generation to generation.

They can be proverbs and sayings. They can be family phrases like: “Where do you think you’re going? Our family doesn’t show off.” And they can also be unspoken rules that no one ever said directly, but everyone lived by.

For example: there is money, but we don’t talk about it. Money is hidden. Money is shameful. Money is dangerous. Success is dangerous. If you have something, it will be taken from you. People will envy you. You will be noticed. And if you are noticed, it will become unsafe.

Sometimes, in the end, the psyche almost gets the formula: money equals death. And if such a belief exists in the psyche, who would move toward money?

Nastya:

This is very understandable if we all come from the Soviet Union and from what came before it. Standing out was unsafe. Speaking was unsafe. Expressing an opinion was unsafe. You could literally pay for it with your life.

And now, when speaking in Russia is becoming unsafe again, it would be strange not to have this fear.

Tanya:

Of course. And we have already taken the first step: we moved ourselves into a safer environment. This does not mean that emigration is pink ponies. No, it is hard here. It is just as hard without money here as it is anywhere else. But here, it can feel calmer simply because of the fact of existing.

Emigration as the experience of a leap of faith

Nastya:

I think emigration gives you a very important experience: the conscious refusal of what no longer suited you. And the experience of a leap of faith.

You are like: “I have no idea what will happen, but fuck it all, I’m going.”

Tanya:

And that is important for success. Because there too, you don’t know what will happen or how you will feel about it, but you are ready to try.

Of course, emigration is not the only way. Different people have different experiences of transition. Motherhood, divorce, changing professions, moving, leaving a relationship, starting your own business. But in any case, it is the experience of: I don’t know what comes next, but I am going.

Nastya:

And the idea of a plateau is also important. You cannot keep climbing uphill all the time. Sometimes you reach a certain point and you need to exhale. To be there. To let yourself get used to it.

Right now, I feel like I have reached a certain point and exhaled a little. Not because now it “means something, ” but because I am simply tired. I need to rest and stay on this plateau.

Tanya:

This is very healthy. When the level of income, visibility, and workload increases, the psyche does not simply need to “sleep on it for one night.” It needs to adapt.

For example, when income grows, sometimes it is useful not to sharply increase expenses, but to let the psyche get used to it: now we have more money in the account, and the world has not collapsed. We live more or less the same way, but the space has become wider.

And instead of pushing yourself too hard, continuing to grow and risking burnout, you can let yourself simply be and breathe. Maybe for several months. Maybe even for years. It depends on what feels comfortable in your body.

Good changes can also fuck you up

Tanya:

I remember very well how changes for the better happened in different areas of my life. For example, a better job. Or divorce. For me, divorce was definitely a change for the better, but it was also a very sad event, because we had been together for 13 years. It was bittersweet: sad and liberating at the same time.

Emigration, on the other hand, was purely liberating for me. I really wanted to leave. But when the change happened, I did not feel joyful 24/7, the way books and films make you imagine it.

I found myself in a liminal stage: I was no longer there, but I had not yet gotten used to being here. Physically, I was fucked up. I got sick in Turkey in May, even though it was hot, sunny, another country, a friend was next to me, and my basic needs were covered. But my nervous system was overloaded.

I felt how a pleasant event can affect the body heavily. Even badly. Because the body is reorganizing itself. As if the bones are moving into new places. A new quality appears: I am an emigrant. And you’re like: “Whaaat?”

Nastya:

You are describing me over the past two months.

From the outside, blog growth looks attractive. Especially in emigration, where many people promote themselves through social media. If you run a blog, it is understandable that you want an audience. And when people congratulate me, the most accurate word for my state is confusion.

It is genuinely a good thing. A fucking great thing. But I am like: “What do I do?”

And maybe, semi-consciously, I was trying not to think about it too much. Not to give it more meaning than it has. Just to keep doing the actions that led to success.

Because this is not the kind of success where you climb a mountain and then sit there. You have to keep making an effort at least to stay on that mountain.

Success changes relationships

Nastya:

We are talking about what happens inside a person. But success also changes your environment.

Financial success, blog growth, recognition, visibility — all of this affects the dynamics between people. Someone may envy you. Someone may not be able to feel happy for you. Someone may simply not understand what to talk about with you now.

And I feel that sometimes it is easier for me to talk to people who also have a large audience. Not because they are better. But because they understand the experience from the inside.

Tanya:

Yes. And this is also difficult. It is not always obvious that this will be one of the consequences.

It is the same with emigration. You move to another country, and the old friends who stayed behind no longer understand what is happening to you. Even if they have visited this country as tourists — tourism and emigration are not the same thing.

Success is similar. People may say: “You just got lucky.” But what about all the work before that? What about all the emotional experience during the process?

And it is not always envy. Sometimes it is simply a lack of understanding. A person needs to be heard, while the people around them think: “But everything is good for you now, what are you complaining about?”

Nastya:

Yes. When the growth started, people would ask: “Wow, congratulations! How are you?” And I would answer: “I’m completely overwhelmed.”

Tanya:

And that is a very accurate word. Because “being overwhelmed” consists of dozens of emotions: surprise, confusion, anger, helplessness, fear, euphoria, joy, sadness. You are no longer the same as before. And people around you do not always understand that.

The body has to withstand what we want

Nastya:

I also think a lot about the body. At some point, my body started reorganizing itself: tension began to release, my breathing changed, I started doing yoga and stretching. And recently I bought roller skates.

Roller skates are very much about balance and leg strength. So far, I have only skated at home, and it is fucking hard. In Moscow, I had a longboard, and metaphorically speaking, you could say that in Moscow I had balance. Then I left, the balance disappeared, and I had to find it again. Now it is different. Not a board, but skates.

I skate around my apartment and realize: some of my muscles are weak for this, my left and right sides work unevenly, my feet hurt. I bought yoga blocks and do exercises for my feet. And it is amazing how, through pleasure, a need to strengthen the body appeared.

As if my body has to become stronger in order to withstand what I want. Or what this success is bringing me.

Tanya:

Physical activities connected to balance and concentration are very helpful during periods of change. When you walk through the forest and watch where you place your foot so you don’t twist your ankle, your head clears. Walking, cycling, swimming, roller skating — anything with repetitive movement and concentration helps the nervous system.

Nastya:

Yes. When I swam in Russia, I did five-kilometer open-water swims. I would come out of the river and later at work think: “Fuck, I swam across a river. Are you telling me I can’t go to this meeting?”

That gives you a personal experience of support.

I can ride 70 kilometers on a bicycle. I can cycle up Fruška Gora and come down from it. Holy shit. I have steel nerves and a strong body. And then it becomes easier to go into other difficult things.

Tanya:

That is exactly what claiming your achievements means.

You can process things in your head as much as you want, but if there is a block in the body — if somewhere you stop breathing, somewhere you tighten, curl up — first you need to work with that bodily trigger. Then things will begin to change in ways you could not even imagine.

Sometimes slow is faster than fast

Nastya:

My main thought from this episode is: it is okay to stop and not run. To let yourself get used to things. To exhale.

Often, the demands we place on ourselves around speed, cleverness, growth, and results are much higher than the demands coming from the outside. So, lagano. Slowly.

Sometimes slow is faster than fast.

Tanya:

And my thought is about self-worth that grows on achievements. If it were that simple, everyone would already have amazing self-worth. But this is something we can and need to do ourselves.

Praise yourself. Claim your achievements. Put sticky notes around your home saying how fucking great you are and what a good job you are doing. Get used to that thought.

I did this.

I swam across a river.

I moved to another country.

I survived a difficult period.

I showed up in front of people.

I earned money.

I did not fall apart.

It is very useful to have a small equivalent of what you want on a larger scale. So that later, when something bigger comes, the psyche can say: “Oh, I have already done something similar. I know what I can lean on.”

Nastya:

Write it in your journal. No, I’m serious. We really do forget this.

Tanya:

Yes. Everything that is written down or at least spoken to another person takes shape. It moves a little away from you, and you can look at it from the outside.

In this sense, a blog is good therapy. But we will talk about that separately.

Conclusion

Changes for the better are not always light joy. Sometimes they are confusion, fear, fatigue, loneliness, and bodily reorganization. Sometimes success does not bring joy at first — it scares you. Sometimes it takes time for the psyche to understand: something good has already happened, and we survived it.

You do not have to run further right away.

You can stop.

You can breathe.

You can claim what you have already done.

You can let the body catch up with the new reality.

You can get used to the good.

And only then move forward.

Lagano.